The rise of AI-powered search has sparked a fundamental shift in how people access information online. But is this truly a revolution—or just a rebranding of how we’ve always done things?
In the latest episode of Performance Delivered, host Steffen Horst sits down with Lindsie Nelson, Head of SEO at Symphonic Digital, and Andreas Voniatis, founder of Artios, to unpack the impact of AI on traditional search. Together, they explore how user behavior is evolving, what marketers need to know, and why SEO is far from dead.
AI Is Reshaping Search Behavior—Here’s How
AI is changing how people interact with search engines. Instead of typing in short keywords, users are now posing full questions or even engaging in long-form prompts. This conversational style has been enabled by tools like ChatGPT and Google’s AI Overviews, which deliver contextual answers instead of a list of links.
Lindsie notes that this represents a behavioral shift: “We’ve been trained to use search in a specific way. Now, people are talking to search engines like they talk to humans.”
Who’s Winning the AI Search Race?
Andreas points out that while Google still dominates overall search volume, platforms like ChatGPT and Perplexity are gaining traction, especially among younger generations. However, there’s concern that zero-click search—where Google displays answers directly in search results—reduces site traffic and makes performance harder to measure.
Is SEO Still a Growth Channel?
Yes—but with caveats. The panel agrees that while SEO remains a valuable growth lever, it’s also becoming a critical tool for brand protection. With so much information presented directly in search results, your content needs to stand out and deliver value beyond the algorithm. Andreas adds, “To succeed in AI-powered search, you need to have solid SEO fundamentals. AI tools still rely on well-structured content to deliver accurate responses.”
The Challenge: Metrics, Measurement & Visibility
Marketers are feeling overwhelmed. Many are unsure how to measure performance in the AI-first search world. Traditional tools like Google Search Console and SEMrush fall short when it comes to capturing LLM (Large Language Model) behavior. As Lindsie explains, “There’s a lot of gray area. Clients want metrics, but right now, there’s no universal way to track AI visibility.”
From Keywords to Audience Intelligence
The panel stresses that the future of search isn’t about keywords—it’s about understanding your audience on a deeper level. Instead of asking, “What keywords should we rank for?” marketers should ask, “What does my audience care about, and how can I meet them there?”
Andreas emphasizes proprietary research and unique insights as key differentiators. “Your content should reflect a perspective that’s not easily replicated elsewhere on the web.”
Looking Ahead: A Multi-Channel Discovery Ecosystem
As AI search tools evolve, so must marketers. Search isn’t confined to Google anymore. AI tools are ingesting content from social media, forums, podcasts, and video. That means your content strategy needs to be holistic.
“Content that performs well across channels—whether it’s video, social, or web—will naturally rise to the top in AI-driven discovery,” says Lindsie.
Final Takeaway: SEO Isn’t Dead. It’s Just Evolving.
Search is no longer just about rankings and keywords—it’s about delivering quality, human-centered content that meets users where they are, whether that’s on Google, YouTube, ChatGPT, or TikTok. Marketers who embrace this complexity will come out ahead.
“If you’re still optimizing for the algorithm instead of the user, you’re already behind,” says Lindsie.
Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Intro: This is Performance Delivered Insider Secrets for Digital Marketing Success with Stefan Horst,
[00:00:10] Steffen Horst: welcome back to Performance Delivered Insider Secrets to Marketing Success, the podcast where we dive into what driving results into today's changing marketing landscape. I'm your host, Steffen Horst, and today we're exploring one of the most bust about and misunderstood shifts in our industry, AI versus search.
[00:00:28] What's really happening and what comes next. If you've spent any time in a marketing Slack channel or scrolling for LinkedIn, you've heard it. AI is changing everything, but is this a revolution in how people discover information or just a rebranding of existing strategies under shiny new name to help us break it all down?
[00:00:47] I'm joined by two incredible guests. First. A marketing strategist who's led digital growth initiatives for both startups and global brands. She brings a sharp reward [00:01:00] lens to how AI influences how we think about content and customer experiences. She's currently the head of SEO at Symphony Digital. In joining her is Andreas Voniatis a digital marketer with deep expertise in performance media analytics, and the emerging role of AI and discovery.
[00:01:19] Andreas has been closely tracking how tools like Chat, GBT, and Google's AI overviews are changing the way users search and how brands can adapt. Andreas is the founder of the SEO Agency artis. Together we'll unpack what's real changed and what still matters and how markets can stay ahead in the age of AI powered search.
[00:01:41] Before we get too deep into fact tactics, let's zoom out for a second. We keep hearing that AI is changing everything. What does that actually mean in practice? Andreas, everyone is screaming. AI is changing everything, but are we actually living through a search revolution or just another rebrand [00:02:00] of all tactics?
[00:02:01] Andreas Voniatis: I think there is a revolution and thanks for that Great question. There's already data out there by tools such as demand sphere that have shown. Over 50% or up to 50% of searches now trigger an AI result on Google. Okay? I think AI is bringing a revolution. It's changing the way people are searching. You know, for the last 25 years, we've been reduced to typing in a few keywords.
[00:02:27] Now people are typing longer sentences, sometimes an essay, such as the confidence in the AI technology to give a much more targeted, contextualized answer.
[00:02:39] Lindsie Nelson: I just will add to that too. I think the biggest piece of what you said too is people are changing how they're using search, right? Like the words they're using, it's not broad term, and then you get a little more specific, and then you get a little more specific.
[00:02:53] People are having conversations with search, right? They're not. Tied to what Google has told us for years is the [00:03:00] only way to find the information you need. I think that's the biggest shift here is not a hundred percent. I mean, the technology is important, but it's really how people have changed their behavior online.
[00:03:11] Andreas Voniatis: Absolutely. Technology will obviously influence the behavior, right? Right. We're all a function of our environment. I think the other thing that's worth noting is that cts are down despite what Google claims, you know, cts are down even for those featured in the AI results. CTIs are down now. Does that mean we are gonna see open AI or chat GPT.
[00:03:37] Or perplexity overtake Google. I wouldn't be so sure about that. You know that there were statistics to show recently that Google is claiming to do 27 times the search volume compared to chat GPTI. And you know, it is not as if, although a Google search results page looks like what Yahoo used to, [00:04:00] ironically, it's still, you know, it has an answer, right?
[00:04:03] It's like, you know, Google became the preeminent search engine and overtook Yahoo because its algorithm was that much better. Google actually has. To Chatt in the guise of Gini. Yeah.
[00:04:16] Steffen Horst: Now, assuming we are in the middle of a shift, who's actually winning in this new AI search engine Result Pages? Is this change helping real users?
[00:04:25] Or just muddling the waters further.
[00:04:27] Lindsie Nelson: I think it's a big, it depends, right? So I think that Google in getting more zero click searches, right, where they're keeping people within their environment helps Google right that in it to make money. And I think that's why there has been such a, an aggressive shift away where we are seeing such an adoption of things like chat, GPT or perplexity.
[00:04:48] Because it feels like Google's just in it for the money and they're a business. I get it. But I think the humans want more of the information that they need, which is why there is this [00:05:00] kind of shift away. I think even generationally, we'll see people that have had chat GPT for more of their life, you know, 10, 15 years from now are going to go to those types of platforms.
[00:05:11] More frequently than something that really forces them kind of into a bucket like Google kind of always has done.
[00:05:18] Andreas Voniatis: I agree. I don't always like to agree because that can make life a bit boring, but I have to agree. I think it would be quite remiss not to mention that Google is the biggest affiliate marketing company in the world, right?
[00:05:30] Steffen Horst: Yeah. So are we saying basically that the search behavior of. The older generation. I don't wanna call us old necessarily, but you know, we grew up with search engines, right? They popped up when we were younger and, and we're used to kind of feeding information into a search bar. Right. The people that are not working in advertising like us, are they more likely, and it is maybe an assumption, are they more likely to maintain that behavior versus, as you said, the people that grew up.
[00:05:58] With ai, with these [00:06:00] chat GPT solutions, that they're more likely to use them to do their search. A little bit like social change. You know, in the beginning a lot of people were in Facebook and that was the numbers open. Then at some point, SNAP came and it kind of captured the younger audiences that just like the format more.
[00:06:16] Then TikTok came and you know, these videos were the new topic and they pulled a part of that audience that previously. Was on Facebook or would've potentially go to Facebook? Is that a
[00:06:27] Andreas Voniatis: similar situation? I would say, I think there is a similar situation. I don't think it's as clear cut though, because Google have a response, so they're still managing to keep a lot of their traffic.
[00:06:42] I think even for, I wouldn't describe. Old, but Gen X or Gen, my generation, my daughter loves talking about how she's a Gen Z and in a superior way without saying she's superior. But I think even among our generation, I. People [00:07:00] are mixing and matching their use of LLM apps or searches with Google, you know?
[00:07:07] So I think so it is not just shifting for the younger generation, it's shifting for our generation. I remember even as far back as 10 years ago, I noticed my daughter was playing with voice search, you know, like it was a toy. So I think the shift has really happened.
[00:07:24] Lindsie Nelson: Well, and I think, I guess tying this back to day-to-day business, I think there's, I hear a lot of B2B companies that sell to executives that say like, we have to be on TikTok.
[00:07:34] It's like, well, your demographic is likely not making purchasing decisions from TikTok. And Google is still a place that people are going to find and validate information. So we also know that chat, GPT and AI overviews are. Can be highly inaccurate. Okay. Yeah. And there are issues with their data and information, and so people are then using Google as a validation tool as well.
[00:07:57] So it's multifaceted, right? It's [00:08:00] not just everybody's gonna jump on board because there's flaws, and then we also have to understand who we're talking to.
[00:08:06] Andreas Voniatis: What? What's really funny, right, to your point, is that not only humans are using search results to ground, you know the truth of their results, so are LLMs, right?
[00:08:18] So much so that Google had to acquire the execution of JavaScripts to help prevent giving that free grounding service to chat GPT and other A elements. Yeah.
[00:08:30] Steffen Horst: Lindsay, I know that we recently had a conversation, I believe it was with a client about. Should they go heavy on AI search, right. And focus on it.
[00:08:40] And I think, if I remember correctly, for that client, we decided it's probably a little bit early, but you know, there could be a first move advantage. Are there industries, guys, where AI search or kind of the advantage of AI has a bigger impact compared to others?
[00:08:55] Lindsie Nelson: I will say from what we're seeing across clients, [00:09:00] I'm not seeing a particular industry that's like, there's all these studies of it's impacting X, Y, and Z spaces more.
[00:09:06] I'm not seeing that. I think it's more of how people are using it rather than individual industries. So like if you are rooted in providing high level content that. It doesn't give any human context or insights. It's literally just something that, you know, a IO reviews or chat GPT can spit out real easy, then you're going to lose, right?
[00:09:26] If you're not providing human centered context at this point, then you're going to lose regardless of the industry. But that's kind of my opinion on it.
[00:09:36] Andreas Voniatis: I think it's more to do with the nature of the query rather than the industry because even if you are shopping for a consumer product or you are looking to procure a B2B solution, you naturally will do research on either, and that usually leads to a long form type query or prompt, and a matching long form [00:10:00] answer.
[00:10:00] Lindsie Nelson: And back to what you were saying, Steph, and I think the reason we pushed against the, we need to optimize only for LLMs is their site was wholly broken in a lot of ways. And so jumping into, we need to be on chat GPT when their site is not indexable. Is a massive problem, right? It's kind of this, we wanna be all the way over there, but we don't have foundation.
[00:10:22] There is still foundation work that has to be done, and I think people are focused on the shiny thing and we need to also root in what is still critical for any website and any consumer.
[00:10:35] Andreas Voniatis: Well, I just wanted to say you're absolutely right. I mean, you know, when you think about the rising energy costs to run an ai, the shortage of GPUs, semiconductor chips, again, to run an ai, it means that content on a website in order to succeed in AI needs to have all of the SEO basics in place.
[00:10:56] So, you know, to succeed in ai, you have to [00:11:00] be good at SEO as well.
[00:11:02] Lindsie Nelson: Yeah.
[00:11:03] Andreas Voniatis: Okay.
[00:11:03] Steffen Horst: Well, let's get a little closer to home now. What are your clients actually saying? Are they excited about ai? Worried or just overwhelmed? Andreas, you want to kick this off?
[00:11:14] Andreas Voniatis: Yeah, I think there's a big mixture of excitement and fear.
[00:11:18] Like if you look at reports. And the click-through rates, you know, there's definitely a shift. Okay. Despite increased visibility in the traditional search engine results, there's, I think, despite the tools that have been released, you know, I don't think there's an agreed standard as to which tool provides a reliable data source on, you know, what your visibility looks like and.
[00:11:42] It's quite difficult to, you know, when you're tracking your visibility in traditional search, you've got keywords to go on, you even get keyword intelligence from Google Search Console. What do you have with an LLM? I mean, to have an answer, you need to have a question. But what are those prompts? We're not even getting that kind of [00:12:00] intelligence.
[00:12:00] So I think, you know, there's that kind of fear in terms of, you know, the click-through rates and the lack of visibility or analytics. From, you know, AI search. But on the flip side, it creates an opportunity, you know, when one door closes, hopefully two or three open.
[00:12:20] Lindsie Nelson: Yeah. I think the biggest piece I'm hearing in the conversations are, what is our metric?
[00:12:25] Now give me a metric. Right. And it's difficult and I think what's more difficult is. That this is gray right now, where a lot of these people, their job performance, right? If we're working with a marketing director or a digital marketing manager, whoever it is that's managing search or this search relationship, they are measured on things like traffic and their job performance is measured on that.
[00:12:48] So me coming to them and saying. We need to shift and look at, you know, brand visibility perhaps, or we need to think about this in a totally different way, is really [00:13:00] scary, I think too, because we don't have tangible, or I'll have clients that say, well, what about this tool that I found that says that they can tell me exactly what the, the visibility is, and I have to tell them I think they're wrong.
[00:13:12] Okay. There's absolutely no true reporting today. Like, yes, there's tools that like prompt. Chat GPT every day a million times. But every prompt is different. Every response is different. So it is just a space of gray right now, and we have to kind of lean into that gray, I think a little bit more, which is not the easiest answer when we rely so heavily on analytics.
[00:13:35] Steffen Horst: Yeah. Now, have results for your client stayed the same, decreased or improved?
[00:13:41] Andreas Voniatis: In terms of traditional search, we're finding the decreased con clickthrough rates. You know, if we were to take the same piece of content on its own, we're seeing decreased clickthrough as a result. But because of the nature of the campaigns that we're doing in a, from a content marketing sense, because [00:14:00] of the compelling nature of that content, we're seeing wins elsewhere in terms of an increase in brand searches, referral traffic.
[00:14:08] We do media relations via. You know, targeting specific journalists that have written on that particular topic and social media, you know, if the client is so inclined, a fraction of them will actually make videos from the different sections. So I think, you know, going back to Lindsay's point earlier, the new metrics are all of the non-search channels, not just the search.
[00:14:33] And in my opinion, it's always been the case. If your content is that good, it should have. Value beyond search. It can't be just for search. 'cause if it's just for search, chances are it's incredibly formulaic and is likely to degrade in future updates. You know?
[00:14:50] Lindsie Nelson: Yeah. If you're doing SEO for an algorithm at this point, like you're going to fail, right?
[00:14:55] This is, we are not in a space of, even at the conference we were at, where it's like, well, [00:15:00] SEO's just like trying to game the system and it's like we are trying to understand how things function on a technical way, but. It always comes down to providing good content and information to your users, right?
[00:15:11] Just doing good for who needs the information you are providing. I wanna throw in something kind of interesting. I just did a review of all of our B2B clients and I looked at clicks and impressions over the last 16 months. As far as you know, Google Search Console will allow and we can see like right when AI overviews started to come in.
[00:15:29] And this is not taking chat GPT into consideration. A pretty quick drop right in clicks, that click through rate dropped, but in the last 60 days. There has been almost like a revitalization to what it was pre AI overviews, and it's like, okay, is this because businesses are making buying decisions in Q1 and in Q3 and Q4, it was just down or is there now?
[00:15:56] Yes, AI overviews are showing up more, but there is a greater distrust [00:16:00] and people are then doing. More clicking deeper into sites like it was just this interesting bubble in the last, I mean, literally six weeks max of that kind of bounce back where people are getting to sites more than they were maybe six months ago.
[00:16:17] Yeah, it, it's interesting how things are changing so quickly, right?
[00:16:20] Andreas Voniatis: Yeah.
[00:16:21] Lindsie Nelson: We can make assertions today and maybe this gets published a week from now and it could be different than what we're seeing today, and that's how fast these things are happening.
[00:16:31] Andreas Voniatis: Yeah, I think, you know, that's probably a reflection of Google teams doing constant iterations and experiments to, you know, obviously I would imagine the objective of their experimentation is to maximize Google Ads revenue,
[00:16:46] Lindsie Nelson: always.
[00:16:48] Steffen Horst: Okay. Well, let's take a step back and talk about the nuts and bolts of search. What's really changed in how people discover information? First, we've got to [00:17:00] get clear on what we mean by ai. A lot of people are lumping everything together from chair GPT to Google's ai, AI overviews, but there are big differences in how they work and how users interact with them.
[00:17:14] With so many searches going zero click. And Lindsey, you mentioned this earlier these days, it begs the question, is SEO still a growth channel or just a brand protection player at this point? Lindsay, I.
[00:17:28] Lindsie Nelson: Yeah. No, I mean I think that's, it's interesting. I absolutely believe that there is still growth opportunity in search.
[00:17:35] I think the people that are pulling away from it long term are gonna be really negatively impacted by assuming that search is just nothing anymore. But it is also a brand protection play. And I think SEO historically has been, well, brand is already kind of covered. Google always ranks your brand site first, at least majority of the time.
[00:17:55] Where I think there is more of a brand protection play today than there ever [00:18:00] has been, perhaps. But I think assuming that essentially the SEO is dead talk is not understanding that search is existing, it's just, it's expanding is really what's happening today.
[00:18:12] Andreas Voniatis: Yeah. I think to use a really poor analogy, it's a bit like, you know, dance music.
[00:18:17] In the beginning it was just dance music and now we have house garage r and b jungle. And many other varieties that my daughter would know about that I wouldn't. And so, you know, search is changing. And you know, as we touched on before, you know, to be successful at ai you need to have the SEO basics. And so, you know, search is growing, but it's also changing.
[00:18:40] It's perhaps fragmenting like dance music has. But there's an extension. You know, I think the next wave will be ent ai, where instead of us typing something in, it's almost like we have an LLM trained on our preferences and it's pro, rather than us going. [00:19:00] Ai ai, AgTech AI will respond or monitor and look for opportunities in the background for what it is that we want and make suggestions.
[00:19:10] And so if you want take advantage of that opportunity in the future era, you've absolutely got to get your SEO done and to the point where it's good enough for LLM. SEO or a EO or GEO,
[00:19:27] Lindsie Nelson: whatever the word you're using, whatever the acronym is. The initialization of,
[00:19:33] Andreas Voniatis: yeah, yeah. Whatever the acronym of the day is.
[00:19:35] You know, there's a big future coming. It is already arrived now, but there's an even bigger future, so I don't think SEO is dead. I think if anything, what AI has done, it's, it's for shortened. The requirement now to really do some proper good marketing so that whatever you do is not just good for search.
[00:19:54] It's good beyond search with all the other channels like social media.
[00:19:58] Lindsie Nelson: I do foresee [00:20:00] in the near future, like a consolidation of the SEO space where there were a lot of agencies doing, still selling. You know, we're gonna rewrite title tags and put medic keywords and these things that could be done at a low cost and at mass.
[00:20:15] And you're not gonna get the return on those things that maybe you were able to even a few years ago. I think there's gonna be a higher level of intelligence, experience, expertise needed for search to do it well and. Trust in what's kind of real and what's just not gonna work anymore.
[00:20:38] Andreas Voniatis: Yeah, I would agree.
[00:20:39] I think, you know, in the seventies, not that it was alive, then they said that it would destroy millions of jobs, but actually the opposite happened. It actually created millions multimillions of jobs. I think AI will do the same thing. I think, you know, I remember managing someone for a supermarket account in the uk [00:21:00] and that person was manually optimizing title tags, you know, using a formula.
[00:21:06] But now at the stage where you know, we could create automated technology to actually. Rewrite tags on the fly in response to data as it comes in. And this can all be automated site wide, and you can use Edge technology on the cloud to actually implement it. So you don't even have to get the developers involved.
[00:21:25] It would just be like analyze, optimize, scheduled or implemented. And you know, it just releases the SEO specialists. To do what we are all built to do, which is to be a lot more creative and intelligently respond to the data around us. You know, to do perhaps more of the thinking and the understanding of the business requirement that the AI.
[00:21:49] It's not quite there ready to do. And if Elon Musk is right, then maybe we won't have that job either we'll just be living on a high income universal credit or maybe not so high income, [00:22:00] but who knows? Hopefully that's a hundred years away.
[00:22:02] Lindsie Nelson: We'll see.
[00:22:04] Andreas Voniatis: We'll see.
[00:22:04] Steffen Horst: Yeah, indeed. Well, alongside all of this, we're obviously seeing real change in how users interact with certain, you talked about that briefly earlier.
[00:22:13] People aren't just typing in. One or multiple keywords. They're actually writing in questions or statements, and as a result, they're expecting thought out answers not kind of a one word response. So let's unpack that shift. I. What was the traditional, your search process and how is that being disrupted by eye power tools?
[00:22:37] Lindsie Nelson: I mean, it's interrupting every piece of that, right? So, uh, yeah, I'll step in with that one. And I think the thing is, that's interesting, you know, and how traditional searches, right, with your broad term and getting more specific. That is not natural human behavior. We don't talk like that. We don't start a conversation with one word and then get more specific.
[00:22:57] We were trained by how [00:23:00] Google functioned to start broad and get specific, and now we're just talking as humans do. Rather than talking. Even though I will say when you start to get into chat, GPT and Gemini and perplexity we're just training ourselves to prompt and prompting is still not entirely. Okay, chat GPT.
[00:23:19] You are a B2B manager that loves the outdoors. What would you do? You know, you're still doing it as just thought in a different way, in a prompting way versus. Keyword specific.
[00:23:32] Andreas Voniatis: It's certainly a lot more richer though, isn't it? Because it reflects our increased confidence in search technology that, you know, we feel that we can give context, give a name, and then ask the question.
[00:23:44] You know? Yes, there's a structure to it in order to, as you've pointed out, Lindsay, to get the best from that technology. But I think when we think about the difference between what I call the 10 Blue Link era or traditional SEO or search, um. You know the [00:24:00] AI LLM era. I think what that means now is that there was this famous article by the Verge how SEOs ruined the internet.
[00:24:07] And I have to say, with some heaviness in the heart, I believe that article is largely true.
[00:24:13] Lindsie Nelson: Yeah. Can't disagree.
[00:24:14] Andreas Voniatis: I mean, you know, we've seen. Quite an abuse of the ultimate guide to target, keyword or topic. And then it will be an arms race to get an increased word count and do a plus one on whatever the top five articles we're doing and include all the sections that you know.
[00:24:32] Just make sure you got more sections then everybody, and this is where we're getting to and now. Thankfully, I must say AI has kind of put a stop to that. 'cause with ai it's forced us to actually a stop trying to produce content so that we're turning our clients into the Wikipedia of whatever it is they sell.
[00:24:51] And actually, you know, like for example, if you've got a client that does cybersecurity, right? And you are selling to a managed service [00:25:00] provider, do they really want to read an article? You know, what is ransomware? Well, no, of course not. But you see, they know what that is. Exactly. They know what it is, but it's ridiculous, you know?
[00:25:11] Yeah. Traditional SEO has taken us to this point where we start writing content to please everybody. I think ai, especially when people say, I am an MSP and I want to know now, I think we're getting to an exciting. Dare I say era of producing content for the target buy or the target audience rather than trying to please everybody on the internet.
[00:25:34] You know, one size fits all content. Now, in my opinion, and according to the data that I see is not working anymore
[00:25:40] Lindsie Nelson: a hundred percent. I would just kind of put a pin in in that for everybody to hear. Like it is not creating content for the masses. It's creating content that matters. And I think it's really interesting because.
[00:25:54] As much as AI has benefited this in terms of our field, it's also been like the death of good [00:26:00] content because people are just churning out. Garbage with chat GPT every day. Um, I don't remember what the stat was, but it was just insane the amount of new content that's being published every day because of the ability to write 2000 words or 5,000 words on any topic you really want.
[00:26:18] With chat, GPT and a couple clicks. Um, which is why we have to move away from that because more content isn't better anymore. Anybody can create just vast libraries of content overnight.
[00:26:30] Andreas Voniatis: Yeah, exactly. And, and luckily, you know, I. AI is allergic to content that is written as an output of a prompt. So AI written content.
[00:26:42] You know, if you think about it, AI is training their models on discussions online. Okay? And so if AI was to come across content that was generated by an LLM, then it wouldn't want that because it's a bit like taking a cassette copy of a [00:27:00] cassette copy of the original. Now, if you think of, you know. AI being the cassette copy of the original.
[00:27:05] Then LLM or AI written content is a cassette copy of the cassette copy. Now, if you're around in the eighties, which was the era in which I was born, then you would know that a cassette copy of a cassette copy has really. Really poor sound quality. And you know, if we take time into account, you know, you can only do it after you, you get the cassette copy of the source so you are also late to the party.
[00:27:29] So, you know, AI would fear that and therefore would not reward that 'cause it doesn't wanna pollute its models with low signal content or low value content.
[00:27:38] Steffen Horst: Now, we haven't talked about so far is intent. How are people using Google versus chat GPT? Are they going there for the same reasons? Or completely different ones.
[00:27:49] Andreas,
[00:27:50] Andreas Voniatis: I would say the intent would definitely be different. And a good test of that is when you look at the queries generates, you know the type of search results [00:28:00] that Google returns, depending on the query. So if something's more informational, you are very likely to get an AI overview. Whereas if you get something more transactional, Google's gonna jump on that, hit it with a load of ads, and you won't see.
[00:28:15] Much in the way of AI overviews going back to the demand spare, uh, statistic that almost 50% of. AI overview. So I think Google's certainly pretty good in terms of determining the intent, and I think Lindsay would agree that, you know, the intent is probably a lot more on the informational research side of,
[00:28:34] Lindsie Nelson: well, I had a personal experience recently with this.
[00:28:38] Okay. So I really wanna make sourdough. I'm like that. I feel like that middle-aged woman that now wants to make bread, it's terrible. But I need to know like, what are all the tools I need? What's the best Dutch oven I can buy for this? You know, what is this brand versus this brand? And doing a Google search to collect all of that is exhausting.
[00:28:54] So I had a conversation with chat GPT about, you know, build me a table comparing [00:29:00] these brands. What's good for a beginner? What do I need to consider? And it helped me make that decision. Then went to Google and bought the product, right? I didn't buy it from chat, GPT, I didn't click on a link to a site.
[00:29:12] But what it did do is help educate me on the things I don't know anything about but want to learn more about. And then I took that into Google and made a buying decision. So I think it is just a multimedia approach to this, and I think chat, GPT or these AI tools are just better at certain pieces comparative to Google.
[00:29:32] Steffen Horst: I mean that's interesting. Could we see, and I'm pretty sure AI tools will, will kind of hop on it at some point, and obviously, you know, this is a feedback from one person, but could we see that people use AI tools more for information gathering because it's much quicker, right? You don't have to go to different sources on Google and then kind of read through it, write it down, et cetera, and then make the buying decision.
[00:29:56] What are your thoughts on that? I
[00:29:57] Andreas Voniatis: think that's already happening.
[00:29:59] Lindsie Nelson: [00:30:00] Yeah. Tracking it is difficult. I mean, the attribution of that like is tough to understand that process at this point again, 'cause we don't have really great reporting out of like chat GPT or Gemini or any of these. But I think again, tying it back to a lot of the conversation we've already had today about that informational piece.
[00:30:18] Is so easy to be fed, but then when you wanna get deeper and really make decisions, you're gonna go into traditional search and click into a website.
[00:30:29] Steffen Horst: Okay, well now that we covered the current landscape, let's look forward. What should brands be thinking about when it comes to showing up in AI first discovery?
[00:30:39] Lindsay?
[00:30:40] Lindsie Nelson: Go with me first on this one. So I think there's a lot of pieces to kind of play it here, and I think we'll kind of expand in different discussions here in terms of what to do next. But I think there is such a, an importance of understanding the market more than we ever have before, of who is your audience, what do they care about?[00:31:00]
[00:31:00] What is the expertise that we are providing to the world? Then tailoring a strategy to those pieces. You know, do we have the structured data to support that? Are we providing the content? Is it accessible? Or do you have 8,000 blog posts and we need to do some pruning because there's just too much. So I think focusing in on who we're talking to.
[00:31:22] I'm even, I had conversations this morning about we need to stop talking about keywords. I don't care about search volume and keywords. Who are we talking to and are we creating the proper content there? And I think that has to be the shift in brands. Is that who versus, you know, a search volume number pulled from, you know, some rush or search console or whatever.
[00:31:43] Andreas Voniatis: I totally agree. I think search keyword intelligence tools such as SEMrush and a HS, they, they're not fit for the AI search era. So there goes my ambassadorial ship ACY for those tools. Sorry, not sorry, but it's [00:32:00] gotta be said. They're not, because keywords then tell you who's typing in, who's searching on those keywords.
[00:32:06] And AI is now intelligent and people are searching in such a way where they're declaring who they are, their context in their searches. So to your point, Lindsay, I think you're absolutely correct. I think the brands that succeed today and tomorrow will be the ones that are. Gathering audience intelligence, you know, seeing where the active discussions are happening online, doing the research.
[00:32:32] Because if you think about it, any tool that gives you those insights, and as long as it correlates very highly to what the models model findings would be of these LLMs and search engines. I'm gonna perform extremely well, not just in ai, but also in traditional search. So it's gonna be incredibly important to make sure that the content you do produce that is modeled on the sources online, has [00:33:00] a high confidence interval and the low margin of error.
[00:33:03] And so it's definitely a data scraping stroke combined with analysis, synthesizing those discussions among the target bites. 'cause you know, keywords don't cut it anymore.
[00:33:16] Lindsie Nelson: Yeah. And also just expand slightly. I think also we as SEOs need to leverage AI tools for our research. I think. Asking questions to chat GPT using Gemini, understanding what is coming back.
[00:33:30] I think there's, again, a, well, we wanna hold the expertise of looking at the keywords and understanding all these things. We have to be open to using these tools as well, because that is where the debt is held and we can leverage this and be so powerful to use it instead of being afraid of it.
[00:33:48] Andreas Voniatis: Yeah. I think also, again, SEO, you know, there's um, or a EO and GEO, it's always been in the way that there's a power law, right?
[00:33:57] That, you know, there's X trillion or x [00:34:00] billion or millions of sites that are competing for. A certain search term, but the very, very few can only be visible. And so I think if you're gonna get ahead in AI search as well as traditional search, your research has to be proprietary. So it's gotta be something that you can't easily replicate elsewhere on the web.
[00:34:23] And that is the winning driver in today's search environment. And tomorrow's I, I believe.
[00:34:29] Lindsie Nelson: Yeah,
[00:34:29] Steffen Horst: I agree. Now, before we come to an end to today's episode, we can't forget to look at the bigger picture. Visibility driven means more than just showing up on Google. How do channels like social media, YouTube, and even podcasts play into AI driven discovery?
[00:34:47] Lindsay?
[00:34:48] Lindsie Nelson: Yeah, I mean, I think this is something that, it's actually, again, interesting. I had a conversation this morning about the fact that SEO is not just Google anymore. Chat, GPT really takes. Social input. What is [00:35:00] happening on within forums, what is happening on social media, what is happening in websites?
[00:35:05] Like all of these things matter where we cannot have our blinders on and say, this is what's on our website, and that's all that matters. And I mean, backlinks have always been a piece, but I think it has become a thing where it's not like we need to go out and get masses. It is more about where are we?
[00:35:22] Are we collecting, you know, credible content and information? And assets here, like it has to be full media approach. We cannot, again, have these blinders of what's on our website and nothing else.
[00:35:36] Andreas Voniatis: I mean, it is great that AI has for shortened the requirement to raise the content bar. You know, so that content is for your audiences, and if you're doing that, you're gonna be successful in social media, video newsletters, press.
[00:35:51] Of those things because the value is intrinsically there is at the core of the content and of the premise [00:36:00] of, or intent of producing that content in the first place. It's because it's what your audiences care about. So you know if you've got something that good, you are free from whatever the search engine throw at you, you really are.
[00:36:12] Steffen Horst: Well, Lindsay Andreas, thank you so much for joining me in performance of our podcast and sharing your knowledge on AI versus search. Now, Andreas, if people want to find out more about you, about twa, how can they get in touch? How can they find more about your company? I.
[00:36:27] Andreas Voniatis: Thank you, Stefan. So they can find me on LinkedIn if they type in my complicated spell name.
[00:36:35] Steffen Horst: As always, you leave that information in the show notes
[00:36:37] Andreas Voniatis: or they can just visit our website, rts.io, which hopefully will also be on your show notes. It'll
[00:36:45] Steffen Horst: be Thank you and thank you for having me. Of course, of course. And sorry for pronouncing your company's name more in a French way, I looked at it and I was like, oh, it sounds like Trois.
[00:36:54] Andreas Voniatis: Well, I felt inspired, you know, maybe I'll kick something French this weekend. [00:37:00]
[00:37:01] Steffen Horst: Now, this was the first episode of a podcast series, AI versus Search that Lindsay and Dryers and I will record. The way how we wanna move forward is we want to collect information from the community, from our clients, from our partners, and really.
[00:37:16] See, what do they hear? What concerns do they have? Where do you look for answers? So we will create the following episodes depending on what we hear from our community after releasing this episode. So look out for episode 2, 3, 4, and I don't know how many that will come after that. Other than that, thanks everyone for listening.
[00:37:38] If you like the performance of our podcast, please subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes or your favorite podcast application. If you want to find out more about Symphonic Digital and want to talk to Lindsay about SEO and how we can potentially help you with that, you can visit us@symphonydigital.com or follow us on X at Symphonic hq.
[00:37:57] Thanks again and see you next time. [00:38:00]
[00:38:01] Performance delivered is sponsored by Symphonic Digital Discover, audience-focused and data-driven digital marketing solutions for small and medium businesses@symphonicdigital.com.
.png)
