In this episode of Performance Delivered: Insider Secrets for Digital Marketing Success, host Steffen Horst welcomes Grant Johnson, a six-time CMO and current Chief Marketing Officer at Chief Outsiders. Grant works with mid-market B2B SaaS companies to double revenue, scale operations, and drive market leadership.
His approach? Data over opinions, strategy anchored in outcomes, and performance assessments that give marketers a clear roadmap to growth.
Why Marketing Performance Assessments Matter
Grant began developing the Marketing Performance Assessment (MPA) as a way to combat vague expectations and prove marketing ROI in the language CFOs understand—data.
The framework evaluates performance across three core pillars:
- Market Presence – Website, social engagement, and channel reach
- Brand Strength – Email engagement, retention, and brand loyalty
- Pipeline Health – Creation, conversion, and close rates
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The methodology includes 24 metrics (8 per pillar) and can be customized based on a company’s specific needs or stage. According to Grant, most companies fall into a “yellow zone,” scoring between 60–89—indicating good but improvable performance.
Common Challenges with KPIs
Many companies struggle to define key performance indicators (KPIs). Often, there’s a disconnect between marketing and leadership on what success actually looks like.
“Marketing isn’t a gumball machine,” says Grant. “You can’t just put in a dollar and expect perfect pipeline on the other side.”
He emphasizes that upper-funnel and lower-funnel metrics require different expectations and measurements. A one-size-fits-all KPI model won’t reflect the complexity of today’s buyer journey.
Benchmarking & Diagnosis
The assessment process takes just an hour and involves:
- Agreeing on relevant metrics
- Gathering available performance data
- Running the metrics through a model
- Scoring and identifying improvement areas
Grant also recommends publicly available benchmarking tools like Benchmark.ai and Insight Partners’ SaaS periodic table to help compare your metrics with thousands of other companies.
AI, Content, and the Future of Marketing
On the topic of generative AI, Grant sees it as a tool to boost efficiency—freeing marketers to focus on strategic thinking, risk-taking, and better creative. But he warns against using AI as an excuse to reduce marketing investment: “It still takes people to run the machine.”
He also shares an impressive case where content marketing accounted for 15% of closed-won revenue—a rare feat that took a full year of persona-based, problem-solving content development.
How to Get Started
For marketers looking to assess their current state, Grant offers this advice:
- Start by identifying which metrics you can currently track
- Define what marketing is expected to contribute (pipeline, retention, brand, etc.)
- Build consensus across leadership
- Audit your martech stack and budget allocations
- Focus on small wins in the next 30–90 days
And perhaps most importantly: don’t get stuck chasing the mythical “one KPI.” Marketing is a system—its performance needs a multi-metric view.
Episode Trasncript
[00:00:00] This is Performance Delivered Insider Secrets for Digital Marketing Success with Steffen Horst.
[00:00:10] Steffen Horst: In today's episode, we're going to talk about marketing performance assessments. You to speak with me is Grant Johnson, CMO at Chief Outsider, the nation's leading executive as a service firm, which helps CEOs and the organizations identify the fractional marketing and sales executives they need to accelerate growth.
[00:00:28] Grant works with CEOs at mid-Market B2B SaaS companies to double revenue scale operations and drive market leadership building profitable global businesses. As a result driven six times CMO. We've approved track record growing revenue by 10 times and seven successful exits he serves on an executive team, drives some transformational change, delivers constant growth and facilitates billion dollar liquidity events.
[00:00:55] Grant is a trusted leader with exceptional interpersonal and communication skills. He [00:01:00] builds mentors and retains high performance teams that exceed corporate goals. Grant, welcome to the show,
[00:01:06] Grant Johnson: Stefan. It's great to be here, and thanks for that kind introduction.
[00:01:09] Steffen Horst: Well, before we start talking about marketing performance assessments, tell us more about yourself.
[00:01:15] How did you get started in your career and what led you to where you currently at?
[00:01:19] Grant Johnson: Yeah, I think it's a fascinating journey in marketing. Like a lot of folks, I had worked in different areas. I was fortunate after getting my degree to be in a rotational assignment, you know, in operations and manufacturing and finance.
[00:01:33] And then I got into the sales and marketing. We were going to a trade show and we were doing these ads. Said, man, that's where the action is. I like the dynamic nature of marketing and then I got into tech marketing and eventually the last 10 years plus specialized in SaaS software as a service. I think more and more companies are really innovating in that area.
[00:01:55] And then with Gen ai, I now can say for 20 years in a row, it's the [00:02:00] best time to be in marketing because. The internet came along and that was great. And then mobility, and you know, now gen ai and if you like learning new things and continually adapting and improving outcomes. Yeah, and you're willing to be performance driven and results focused, then you can really have a lot of fun and make a big impact as a marketer.
[00:02:22] Steffen Horst: And I think with what you just said about continuous learning, adopting new solutions that are out there, that's kind of underpins what we're talking about. Market performance assessments, right? Because if you are kind of stuck in, I don't know, 2005 and what was working then, you're probably not on the pulse, basically.
[00:02:42] So tell our listeners what led you to create the market performance assessment or a market performance assessment to help you identify how companies basically are doing.
[00:02:51] Grant Johnson: Yeah, like a lot of things, solutions are the genesis of a problem not yet solved. And I know a lot of CMOs, probably a few hundred.
[00:02:59] I've been a six [00:03:00] time CMO and going back for, you know, 15 plus years, and as I was in regular meetings, we call 'em CMO huddles, peer groups, there was a lot of discussion about, you know, frustration over the increasing expectations and the reduced budgets to reach those unrealistic expectations like. How do I prove the effectiveness of marketing?
[00:03:22] How do I stop having to justify every dollar I spend? And so, you know, I talked to some peers and I have been performance driven, results oriented marketer. I just like to be able to demonstrate to CFOs and the language they understand numbers. I. Equations, formulas, models that were actually moving the needle.
[00:03:41] And here's why. It's not my opinion, it's the data. Yeah. And so I started thinking about like, what really can you measure? And I've worked a lot of PEs, a lot of 'em just want pipeline. But you know, I. If you don't build your market presence, the first component of marketing performance assessment, which is really your [00:04:00] website, your social media engagement, the channels, direct or indirect.
[00:04:03] If you don't build your brand straight, which is how much like people care about your communications, do they open 'em? Do they respond? So your engagement and your royalty, do you retain customers? Then your pipeline creation and conversion. You know, so the really, where the rubber meets the road and whatever possibility becomes reality, somebody signs like a dotted line.
[00:04:25] It's, you're gonna work a lot harder to close pipeline, to make pipeline efficient. So that's why I created the three major areas and I made it real simple. You know, there's 24 metrics. You can do it with fewer metrics. There's eight for market. Presence, aid for brand strength aid for pipeline health. And I've done it sometimes as let's figure out the five that matters.
[00:04:45] 'cause the key thing is, Stefan, is what are you gonna be measured on? Get agreement on that. How do you prove contribution? How do you prove value? And then, you know, sometimes you'll fall short, sometimes you'll exceed. But if you get those agreed to, what you don't want [00:05:00] is every month or every board meeting, they have a different set of measures because you're gonna be whipsaw left and right.
[00:05:05] And so I found this that really resonate. I launched last July and I've done a number of these assessments are free. It's really a quick way to diagnose your current state and you set the baseline and you set targets to continually improve.
[00:05:18] Steffen Horst: Yeah, so you talked about measurement, obviously, and then before we came on, you and I had a chat about how shocking it is that so many companies when you start talking to 'em and it's us as an agency, the same, right?
[00:05:29] And ask them, what does success look like? Quite often you don't get an answer because they don't have defined KPIs. And then the question comes, how do you decide how much money to invest? Into your marketing activities. From your perspective, why do you think so many companies are struggling with defining KPIs?
[00:05:47] Grant Johnson: Well, there's a lot of reasons. I mean, I think, you know, the PE base and VC based, and there are certainly a number of companies, they've got their portfolios and so they sort of had a set of metrics. They may fo those upon you, and you have to negotiate what's [00:06:00] realistic. Marketing's not a gumball machine.
[00:06:02] You can't wave a magic wand, and suddenly pipeline appears and it materializes and it gets converted. I think they struggle because there's a fundamental lack of understanding in B2B, the buyer journey and the non-linear nature of it, the self-driven nature of deciding whether you want to interact.
[00:06:20] You're in the market now. And so they think like, well, you know, there's gotta be some way to do this because you're a marketer, you're creative and you've got a budget. Just, you know, apply dollars and reign leads. And so I think, you know, it takes a while. Parallel thing Stefan to this is I sort of feel like having worked for a number of CEOs, you don't wanna be the first marketer they hire because they don't really know what they're looking for a lot of times until they see what good looks like.
[00:06:46] Yeah. You know, somebody told them this happens somewhere else and therefore why can't you do it? So I think that that's it. But I do have, by the time this podcast is live, I will have, uh, published a new blog. [00:07:00] Really getting into three major studies are out there and anybody can access, they're free. And so benchmark.ai be marker.
[00:07:11] And of course, especially for SaaS companies, you know, the periodic table from inside partners just look at those metrics and they can have average. It's just like if you can be above those average based on a thousand companies, that's statistically significant. So not to say it's easy to your question to get them to agree on metrics, but that's really the goal.
[00:07:29] Is to say, Hey, this is how I should be measured with my resources and budgets and the markets that I'm in. Here's what consistent good performance is. Let's aim for above that. Let's not just set a number that you pulled out of the air.
[00:07:41] Steffen Horst: Yeah. When you look through these KPIs, grant, are you adjusting these based on.
[00:07:46] The funnel activity. So you know, when you have upper funnel activities, which is more kind of building an audience and compared to lower funnel activity, when it's about, you know, let's get someone to agree on a demo, for example, how do you navigate that? [00:08:00] Because again, in my experience talking to. B2B marketing leaders, they look at everything the same.
[00:08:07] Without really differentiating that probably on the upper funnel, it's a lot more work to get someone interested when leading them down to a point where they say, Hey, okay, I want to have a demo
[00:08:17] Grant Johnson: seventh. That's a really good question. And you're right, a lot of people, they just sort of homogenize, you know, the funnel, like all things created equal.
[00:08:25] And in the marketing performance assessment, I have 24 metrics and I talked to everybody. Why don't you have these five? Why don't you have cac? Why don't you have LTV? Why don't you have, you know, active user minutes to show their engagement? You can add anything you want as long as you're consistently tracking over time.
[00:08:40] 'cause you have to see. There's probably no independent variables other than spending more money, you know? But you can see what the impact of doing one thing or another thing or more of something and less is something. So I think, but yeah, it is important to pay attention. I often work very closely with go-to-market teams, so you know, a lot of marketers report to ceo, some [00:09:00] report the CRO, but the go-to market team should be one team.
[00:09:03] Whether it's an S-D-R-B-D-R, marketing, sales, net new logo objectives, existing customer objectives and and segments, you're gonna have different velocities, different values, different volumes of the pipeline. And you know, one of the ills that I uncovered at one of my companies was the salespeople were equally compensated.
[00:09:22] For expanding and for getting new logos. It's much harder to get new logos. And if you could make your number just calling on existing customers, why would you cold call? Why would you go to end prospect? But you have to get, as you said, Steph, you've gotta get the top of funnel working and you've gotta get the sales cycle working.
[00:09:38] Because what I've found is, let's say I create pipeline in the second half of this year for a mid-market to enterprise, that's not gonna mature probably until late in the year or early the following year. But you've gotta do those things now. To pay off down the road. So you just gotta make sure, that's partly why marketing is always balanced, is strategic, you know, help with the quarterly [00:10:00] imperatives to deliver value in the quarter.
[00:10:02] Right. And so that's part of, uh, sort of the funnel equation.
[00:10:06] Steffen Horst: Yeah. You mentioned that this assessment that you do, you kind of echos give it away. How long does it take you to do that marketing? And assessment. What does it tell you? What specific insights do you get from it that you then share with leadership at the respective company?
[00:10:23] Grant Johnson: Yeah, that's another illuminating question because when I first started doing this, I wasn't sure, this goes back almost a year ago. Would it produce consistent results? And it turns out having done dozens of these for companies from 10 million to hundreds of million. That because it's based on industry benchmarks and it's based on these, you know, best practices, standards for all the metrics for market presence, brand strength, and pipeline health.
[00:10:53] It's very predictive, it's very indicative, the current state and in, you know, one of the blogs, and I'm gonna do more in the future. [00:11:00] I said, if your score is this, if you're in the yellow zone, red is below 60. It's like a great system. A, B, C, D. If you're below 60, you're underperforming. If you're 60 to 89, you're a good performance.
[00:11:11] If you're 90 plus, you get an A. You're green. Everybody I've done is in the yellow, right. You know, that may be low sixties or high eighties, but they're sort of in that cluster, in that range and there's always something you can improve. And then I've created actually 18 improvement and it's publicly available.
[00:11:26] I just like give it away 'cause, 'cause like where Chief Outsiders comes in, where I come in and something needs to help you actually figure out what to do. How to do it and how to do it better. Or with an agency partner like yourself, Stephan. Yeah. And because strategy is good, but execution is everything.
[00:11:40] And if you can execute better than your competitor, yeah, they could even have a better strategy. But you just, you know, you iterated every week, you brainstorm with the team, you put more effort into what was working, you stop doing things that weren't, you know, all sort of the pragmatic things. Yeah, it only takes about an hour.
[00:11:56] Literally, I say it takes 30 minutes. Let's agree on the metrics. Here's my 24. You [00:12:00] wanna substitute, you wanna wait. So double count, gather those metrics. We get together, I drop 'em into a Google sheet and I built the formula. It's simple, calculates it. Here's your score. Anything that's yellow or red, very few people are in the red.
[00:12:12] Honestly, that's more like a company that's probably broken, but most who are in the yellow zone here. Let's pick off the easier things like. Things you can do within the next 30, 60, 90 days. Yeah. Longer term things. If you wanna change your ICP or your whole go to market strategy, you're not gonna do that in 30 days.
[00:12:29] Steffen Horst: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Now, what have you found to be the key performance indicators for marketing effectiveness?
[00:12:35] Grant Johnson: The key performance indicator. Yeah, well, yeah. First of all, there's over a hundred of us in, uh, chief Outsiders and, and we have a Slack channel. So you did know, you brought up a really interesting point.
[00:12:46] Someone has a client that says they wanna know what's the one metric to Judge Mark in effectiveness. I said, run, run for the hills. There's no one metric. You know, it's more of a, it depends on your business. [00:13:00] Maybe there could be five metrics and then the benchmark. Instead they talk about, you know, what metrics are measured, right?
[00:13:05] And so some of the things like certainly your efficiency of creating pipeline, but if they don't qualify converting close at a sales that's equal to or better than your hypothesis, your assumption, that's probably not good. But you know, that is a key one. You know, your efficiency of your various channels.
[00:13:25] There's a lot of digital channels out there, but not all are created equal or they stay equal. That's key. Yeah. And you know what I think is underrated is you can measure all you want on the metrics. You still gotta make sure, that's why we're all in marketing, that you have the impactful creative I.
[00:13:40] Because there's such a sea of sameness out there, there's so much derivative marketing To be edgy and to to be a disruptor, a challenger brand if you will, you have to be something different. So you have to really make sure you're positioning your messaging differentiation are clear. Then your marketing tactics will just work a lot better.
[00:13:59] Steffen Horst: Yeah. [00:14:00] So what I'm hearing is there's no one KPI to use. Am I right or wrong if I say we probably also have to look at marketing KPIs based on funnel positions, for example, and then, you know, if we go into sales side, you talked about, you know, pipeline and then converting, et cetera. Is that about right to say?
[00:14:19] Grant Johnson: I think you pick off a few. I did one recent blog. It said, look, if you want to pick out six and here's, you know, there's six. And certainly you have to have reach and you've gotta have really good engagement. You have to have the creating, as you said, Steph, the top of funnel. And it's gotta be a, a ratio of, you know, one to four accepted by sales.
[00:14:36] I mean, if you're creating a hundred leads and only one gets through, you probably don't have enough budget, right? Yeah. But sales, one of the things I found in marketing, you know, you wanna partner with sales and make sure that they're working their efficiency metrics as much as market is. So time to process a lead, what are their SLAs, right?
[00:14:52] Got, because old pipeline has become stale pipeline. And what's the cycle from stage to stage, from qualification to [00:15:00] vendor of choice to close? And what are you growing average deal size? Because if they're not improving their efficiency, you're gonna sort of slow marketing down. But I'd say you could probably pick out, I have 24, but you know, somewhere between five and 10 are for any company.
[00:15:14] That'd be the key metrics that will determine whether you're gaining momentum or losing share.
[00:15:21] Steffen Horst: Yeah. How would you answer that question to someone? Say, well, I mean, you know, one seems, makes a lot of sense because I can focus on one and drive my activities towards that. But if you tell me I should have 6 24 or how many you suggest potentially, how do you define which of these KPIs are?
[00:15:38] More important than the others because they cannot probably have all the same responsibility, the same importance, basically.
[00:15:46] Grant Johnson: Yeah. You know, I think that is again, gonna be part of the consensus building, whether it's the CO and the CEO plus the board plus investors determine like, what are we looking for?
[00:15:56] Every company has their own dashboards, you know, SaaS, KPIs out there, [00:16:00] uh, max Seal's, the company's got really good. Ability to help you maximize your revenue. And there's other sets of KPIs. So you know, for marketing, clearly the amount of either pipeline that's created or pipeline that's influenced what you're, that's a key one.
[00:16:16] You know, dollars of pipeline you create per dollar invested. You know, I've had as high as 18 to one. Somewhere between five and 15 is probably more typical. And then the efficiency of your channels. And I think also the, you need a multiplicity of channels because buyers go to a variety of sources at different stages in their journey.
[00:16:37] And I will tell you that one of my companies recently. We were able to tag the original lead source and, uh, content marketing actually contributed 15% of closed one revenue. Uh, now as I've told this to people is I've never seen anybody, anybody get over 10. Well, it took us a year and you'd have to see all the content.
[00:16:57] We created persona based problem, you [00:17:00] know, what's the problem we're solving, you know, jobs to be done, you know, broken business processes to solve. And so it took about a year constructing testing, learning, iterating. I think that's another key one. Somebody would once said to me, well just keep doing those webinars.
[00:17:15] You know, they're inexpensive. Well, you can't schedule a webinar five days a week. You know, maybe Salesforce can't. Yeah. But most companies don't have the resource. You certainly can't buy analysts get customers to come on and tell your story for you. Yeah. Problem, solution, and outcome. Right. For their business.
[00:17:31] So that's why you need to do, you know, look, even email nurturing still works. I know people say, well, email's dead, but you know, if you have valuable content, your customers will read it and maybe they'll click on, Hey, this new offering would really help my business. Let's talk more about it. So I think it's, those measures are pretty key.
[00:17:47] Steffen Horst: Yeah, and what you just said, I think it depends on the company and their target audience, right? And I don't think there's a one solution that fits all. You gotta look at, you know, what's your target audience? Where do you, where can you [00:18:00] engage with them successfully? And then again, you know, where can we engage with upper funnel, mid funnel, and lower funnel?
[00:18:05] And get them to a point where they start talking to us and we can tell them about, you know, our company basically.
[00:18:12] Grant Johnson: And yeah, like people have ROI calculator. Well, I don't wanna see an ROI calculator unless I'm actually comparing your solution that's gonna be lower funnel, right? Or case studies, like, you know, you might have logos on the website and then when you actually think customer thinks this is my solution, is this really like me?
[00:18:27] Is this in my industry vertical? Did they have a similar problem? Did it get similar results? And that way, you know, you have the relevant content and tools at the right stage. As you say, Stefan, top, middle, or bottom of funnel.
[00:18:42] Steffen Horst: Now, what advice would you give to a marketer on how to get started if they just want to sit down and say, okay, are we doing things right?
[00:18:51] What are we missing?
[00:18:52] Grant Johnson: Yeah. You know, what I say is start with what are the things that you can measure today, and you certainly have to [00:19:00] have, whether, you know, you're using Salesforce, some other CRM platform, Microsoft Dynamics, and there, you know, there are others out there. You know, you could be using HubSpot or Marketo or something and you've got some, you know, web platform is, what are the metrics you can gather in an automated fashion?
[00:19:15] Nobody wants to manually have to, you know, create these spreadsheets. Right. So what are the metrics you have? What are the ones that you can influence with the people, the resources, the budget that you have, and what's important? Get a G of what are we trying to improve? What are we trying to contribute?
[00:19:29] Is marketing, you know, pipeline, new customer acquisition, efficiency of, of add-on sales, you know, across sale expansion if you will. And you know, get that agreement and then start attacking those particular metrics with programs and tactics and measuring what impact you're having over time.
[00:19:48] Steffen Horst: That makes sense.
[00:19:48] Before we jumped on, you talked about Gen ai Briefly, what is your view on the near and long-term impact of Gen AI as it relates to marketing, assessing [00:20:00] what a company is doing currently, and then kind of the insights that you might be able to get out of that?
[00:20:05] Grant Johnson: Well, I think the only certainty it's guaranteed to become more impactful.
[00:20:09] Only over time. I've watched it. Mark was first starting using these tools and, you know, sharing their learning a couple years ago to where we are today. And, you know, people building their digital twins and getting, you know, entire jobs replaced by some platform. So I think it'll make us more efficient.
[00:20:27] And I think the other key word is effective. If you can only take efficiency, you can't, you know, you've heard the phrase, you can't keep getting infinite returns by cutting. You have to invest your way to growth. And just the same thing is. I said to my whole team at, you know, prior company and companies I consult with is everybody should learn some tool to help them automate the mundane, repetitive tasks.
[00:20:48] But the strategic work, the creative work, the judgment. I know a agentic AI is becoming big as well and can make better decisions faster. That part. Humans are uniquely suited to do it. [00:21:00] I don't know, maybe, you know, over a decade from now that won't be true, but I think over the next couple years, use the tools, learn from them, have them incorporate into your workflow, and then free up some time to take more risk, do more experimentation, you know, improve other things that you can try AB test and what have you.
[00:21:18] But I think, you know, it's a bright fuse for a lot of people. There's fear about job replacement. I just think there's new jobs, right? You can become a prompt engineer, just. Without programming language, as long as you can figure out how to talk to, you know, ai.
[00:21:31] Steffen Horst: Yeah. That actually leads me to another question.
[00:21:33] How do you deal with clients that say, Hey, you know what, so you're using AI to make things easier for you, so you probably don't have to charge us so much. How do you respond to a question like that or to a statement like that?
[00:21:45] Grant Johnson: Well, I just look, everything has to be managed. They don't run them. These tools don't run by themselves every year.
[00:21:51] A digresses for a minute and come back the answer, but this is a standard practice. For CMO heads of market is you should look at your text. Like you can't just be additive, you gotta take something out. 'cause [00:22:00] it takes people to run these things. So you know, your labor costs are rising around the globe and it's the value you create.
[00:22:07] And if you can, you know, show that you know the value create improves their business outcomes, their business results, and it's got an ROI, you know, they spend a thousands dollars and improves it by 2000 or 3000, then why are we arguing over your hourly rate? That that's my answer.
[00:22:23] Steffen Horst: Yeah. Now, before we come to an end today, what are your go-to tactics activity in order to generate rapid performance improvements?
[00:22:33] Are there two, three things where like, you know what, I quite often use those if I need to show quick results, I.
[00:22:40] Grant Johnson: Yeah, I think probably two things. The first is just do a really fast audit, which I've done for many clients. You know, what are the tools you're using, you know, technology you're investing in?
[00:22:51] How are you allocating your marketing mix? How are you allocating your budget? I'll give you an example. You know, you get 30% from small business and 20% for [00:23:00] mid-market and 50% for enterprise. You're spending 50% of your budget on small business. Why are you doing that? You know, does you wanna allocate, you know, budget allocation?
[00:23:08] And then of course digital. A lot of agencies can help you. Internal experts. So you've got a digital marker on staff, you know, performance marketers, performance optimization. So you take a look at, you know, what are the digital tactics? And what I often find for a lot of companies is they become overly reliant on what's worked.
[00:23:25] That's why I try to, you know, carve out 10% of the budget for experimentation. Because you may uncover something that has a 10 x return. You know, obviously video I think is, you know, short consumable content, stackable content that are, that engages, you know, video especially. So I think YouTube's gonna continue to grow in the business environment and just, you know, find a websites another one.
[00:23:46] Like you go to some people's homepage, you don't even know what to do, let alone do they have good CRO. Like, what's the image? What's the call to action? What's the next step? You look at all the pages that you send people to, do they, are they clear on the value prop and the reasons why? [00:24:00] And so I think the audit, the marketing performance assessment, and the general marketing audit, you know, what are your deliverables, what are your capabilities, and what are your gaps?
[00:24:09] You can uncover things you can do in 90 days. All of us who have started if, and I've got templates, we all have templates. The first 90 days. Like, so there's just things you go through and I think you generally can uncover things that you could impact in quarter. Some things will take, you know, quarters to, you know, improve.
[00:24:24] But I think that's what you do. You go in, you find those things. A lot of 'em happen to be digital.
[00:24:28] Steffen Horst: Yeah.
[00:24:29] Grant Johnson: But it could be like somebody's going to events and you just ask them a simple question like. Why are we spending 20,000 bucks event to get 10,000 in revenue? Let's stop doing these events. There's no ROI.
[00:24:38] Steffen Horst: Yeah. Well, grant, thank you so much for joining me on the performance, our podcast, and sharing your knowledge about marketing performance assessments. If people wanna find out more about you, about Chief outsider, how can they get in touch?
[00:24:49] Grant Johnson: Yeah, there's a few easy ways. I'm gJohnson@chiefoutsiders.com. I also have a site, cmo mentor.com.
[00:24:57] I, I put blogs, best practices for marketing [00:25:00] leaders, lessons learned, you know, from battles in the field. But either of those ways, uh, you can find me
[00:25:05] Steffen Horst: perfect. And as always, we'll leave that information in the show notes. Thanks everyone for listening. If you like to perform through a podcast, please subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes or your favorite podcast application.
[00:25:15] If you wanna find more about Symphonic Digital, you can visit us@symphonicdigital.com or follow us on next at Symphonic hq. Thanks again and see you next time.
[00:25:25] Performance Delivered is sponsored by Symphonic Digital Discover, audience focused and data-driven digital marketing solutions for small and medium businesses at symphonicdigital.com.
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